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 APQ Stage 2 Practice!

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Reprievable

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PostSubject: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:43 am

==
Instead of studying, I decided to write a APQ Stage 2 (OPQ Sealed Room) simulation. It's useless to people who use the cheat sheet but handy for people trying to learn the actual logic. It's an executable file (I wrote it myself; I highly, highly, highly doubt you'll get a virus from it) about 350kb in file size. Extract and run - it runs in a command prompt and is fairly self-explanatory. I'll update this thread as I update it. Constructive feedback is always good (be guinea pig for me).

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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:45 am

What I do is:

-Same = always only 1 person move over to the next rope. Always start from left rope, then mid, then right
Path #1: 500 -> 410 -> 320 -> 230 -> 140 -> 050 (start from left rope, next rope is mid)
Path #2: 302 -> 203 -> 104 -> 005 (start from mid rope, next rope is right)
Path #3: 311 -> 221 -> 131 -> 041 (start from left rope, next rope is mid)
Path #4: 122 -> 032 (start from left rope, next rope is mid)
Path #5: 032 -> 023 (start from mid rope, next rope is right)
Path #6: 113 -> 014 (start from left rope, next rope is right). For this one, you have to see the path before 113 to understand the reason why from left moving to the right.

-Different = 2 people move to the next ropes, each person move to the next ropes, next ropes can be the same, can be different ropes for each person. The 2 people who move doesn't have to be from same ropes.
Path #1: 500 -> 311 (2 people from the left move, 1 person move to mid, the other move to right)
Path #2: 311 -> 122 (2 people from left move, 1 person move to mid, the other move to right)
Path #3: 410 -> 302 (1 person from left move to the right, 1 person from mid move to the right). Can't understand the logic here though. Why not moving 410 -> 221. Need David to explain.
Path #4: 320 -> 401 (2 people from mid move, 1 person move to the left, 1 person move to the right)
Path #5: 221 -> 113 (1 person from left move to right, 1 person from mid move to right)
Path #6: 131 -> 212 (2 people from mid move, 1 person move to the left, 1 person move to the right)

So, this what I try so far. I lead apq quite often. I try to get rid of my cheat sheets of stage 2 so I can do this stage faster and I can see where my members moving. There are some things that are quite tricky here. I would say path #6 (same), path #3 (different), and path #5 (different) is where people who use their logic (not using sheets) trip all the time. Although those 3 paths are quite rare encounter. Maybe David can explain more why those 3 paths deviates from the usual pattern?

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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:46 am

cherebi wrote:
Path #6: 113 -> 014 (start from left rope, next rope is right). For this one, you have to see the path before 113 to understand the reason why from left moving to the right. )
You usually get here by 500 (diff) -> 311 (same) -> 221 (diff) -> 131 -> (same) 014. The middle can't be 2 since 221 is diff so there's no point in trying 131 (same) -> 023. Even without prior knowledge though, you'd just try 023, get a same (because of the 0) and arrive at 014.

cherebi wrote:
Path #3: 410 -> 302 (1 person from left move to the right, 1 person from mid move to the right). Can't understand the logic here though. Why not moving 410 -> 221. Need David to explain.
The usual case:
You get here from 500 (same) -> 410 (diff) -> 302. Left can't be 5 or you would have cleared the 500. One of the 0's is then correct. Right can't be 0 since 410 is diff. Middle then must be 0. You want to move as few people as possible, so naturally you go from 4,1 to 3,2.

Any case (no prior knowledge):
You only know that 4 can't be left, 1 can't be middle, and 0 can't be right. It's easiest to test 0's in the beginning since you only have to move 1 or 2 people, so you switch the 1 and the 0. Left can't be 4, so you move one over to the right and keep the middle 0. The other reason is that you want to go from 5->4->3->2->1 on the leftmost unknown rope (without skipping unless you know one or more are impossible) to keep everything as straight in your mind as possible.

cherebi wrote:
Path #5: 221 -> 113 (1 person from left move to right, 1 person from mid move to right)
Left can't be 2, middle can't be 2. Since most people move people from left to right (and never backwards without prior knowledge) and right can't be 3, you move 1 per bad rope over, changing all three values.

==

Path #6 Diff is the only case of moving people backwards. This is only because the left rope would have diff at 0 and you would need to go backwards.
If you didn't have prior knowledge, you would have gone
131 (diff) -> 023 (diff) -> 221 (same) -> 212, where the strike is a skipped step since you know 2 can't be in middle (023 diff) and 1 can't be on the right (131 diff). You thus know the left 2 in 221 (same) is correct because the middle 2 and the right 1 are wrong and proceed to moving the middle rope on the 221 (same) -> 212 step.
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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:06 am

Hmm I tried clicking attachment but comp got all glitchy and I had to restart comp.
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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:10 am

It could be the way phpBB attachments are hosted and/or linked. I can host it on an external site if it still doesn't work for you.
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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:06 am

Alrighty, thx David! Now, I know how to get the logic behind it..

Still trying on getting GPQ 4th stage (if that stage is still exist after guild revamp).. Remind me of mastermind game.. But my game has 6 variety of circles to make 4 combinations.. I usually done it in like 6 steps most.. Think it's harder to do 4 items to make 4 combinations?


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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:48 pm

That stage is mastermind with 4 colors, 4 locations, and allows for repeats of colors in the combination. The fewer colors you have in mastermind the faster it is, since the minimum attempts you need to solve any combination it can give is dependent upon the number of colors you have (i.e. the number of attempts you need to be able to solve the code with any combination must >= number of colors available). The color repeat also makes it easier. The GPQ version is just more annoying because each attempt takes longer to produce (especially if you're not holding all the items) than in some flash version.

If you play some flash version with the 4 color, 4 location, allow for color repeat constraints it's identical to the GPQ version.
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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:38 pm

VIRUZ

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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:39 pm

Andy wrote:
VIRUZ
COMING FROM ANDY'S LOINS.
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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:41 pm

Sad dat wai u leave?

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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:45 pm

Go spam one of my 1290483209432 spam threads plOx.
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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:23 pm

Yikes David has 666 posts..

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PostSubject: Re: APQ Stage 2 Practice!   Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:18 pm

Very creepy indeed! D:

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